Freelance Podcasts

Podcast 22: Drumming up business

March 9th, 2010


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Crunch MD and Freelance Advisor supporter Darren Fell talks about the steps freelancers should take to ensure a sustained supply of business.

  • The changing landscape
  • Putting on your sales hat
  • Enthusiasm is key
  • Managing a pipeline
  • Networking & Social Media
  • Drumming Up Business – workshop

Podcast links:

Listen to the Podcast:

 
icon for podpress  Podcast 22 - Drumming up business [26:19m]: Play Now | Play in Popup | Download


Transcript

Andy: This is Freelance Advisor. Hello everyone and welcome to Episode 22 of Freelance Advisor and today I am talking to Darren Fell about drumming up business.

Hello everyone I am with Darren Fell and today we are going to talk about how freelancers should go about drumming up business, marketing, and getting started. Darren actually one of the first things that I wanted talk about, because I know we’re going to cover personal branding in another show, so we’ll sort of leave that aside for today. What are some of the things a brand new freelancer should do to drum business? Because in my day, it would have been to go straight to an agency, I’m just wondering if that’s changed. I mean I was freelancing in the 90s.

Darren Fell: Yes, it’s changed a bit out there. The personal brand that we’re going to talk about next episode is all about having your own website. Having a reasonable website, not going overboard with it, making sure you’re set up online so people can easily find you, Linkedin all of that. So anyway, we’ll cover that next.

But the world has changed out there. And what the point of this podcast is, is to instil in you freelancers out there, is to get your sales hat on. You’ve got to get into sales mode to bring in business because this is the life blood of a business. And if you don’t bring in the sales or don’t at least dedicate some time out of your day or out of your week to sell, you aren’t going to make the business work. And you’ll be back as – sorry to be impolite, a wage slave, working full-time for somebody and maybe not enjoying it as much as this great life of being a freelancer.

Andy: Now it’s interesting actually because I remember when I was a freelancer and I am not a sales person and I survived really because of the agency I was working through. But I get the impression that things are little bit different today. What would you say to all those people out there, who are just not salesy, but yet they’ve got to sell themselves?

Darren Fell: Yes, that’s an interesting one because I suppose I am salesy and my job over all the past businesses that I’ve set up has been turning maybe non-salesy people with enthusiasm into sales people. And anybody, I can promise you, can be a sales person. You’ve just got to get the psyche right. Don’t think “I hate sales people and I wouldn’t dream – I don’t want to be a sales person.” You’ve got to be a sales person. Everybody is selling all of the time. So one of the first things I do, if they’re really not getting it is, I want you to go away and read a really good sales book.

Now back in my original days of Pure 360.com, I had been a strategic sales person for cold internet, doing long sales cycle, multi-million pound hosting deals across Europe. And I started up here and I’d forgotten – and it’s amazing, I’d actually forgotten the basics of selling.

And I know that sounds silly because in that world, back in the height of the dot-com boom, it was all hoity-toity and wining and dining and “Yes, of course you need 100,000 co-location spots in Berlin and Hamburg and Zurich and Paris” and all of those points. But the life of a freelancer is selling consultancy, often programming skills, graphic design or it could be building things. Say, even if you’re a tradesman listening, you’re offering a great skill. So that’s the core offering.

Andy: So could you recommend any good books then Darren?

Darren Fell: Yes. The one I always recommend is Richard Denny’s ‘Selling to Win’ book. It is the most basic of basic sales books out there. And if you’re still not feeling the salesy feel, a few minutes into this podcast, then get into the feeling. This book – just get it from Amazon. It’s next to nothing. Let’s have a look, it’s £9.99. It’s the best tenner you have ever spent in terms of knowing how to generate or learning how to generate business. And it starts off right from the beginning.

Andy: Actually you’re not an affiliate are you for this book? (Laughter) Maybe you should be.

Darren Fell: No. I should be actually. I have bought so many copies for sales people, it’s amazing and now in Crunch, all of the sales people are given this book. But just to give you a starting point. And everything I’ve instilled, I’ve almost got it in my psyche in every business I set up and of course when I am helping other entrepreneurs and other freelancers, I follow the same process when I do the seminars. And there’s going to be a lot of seminars going on this year in 2010, Drumming up Business; Sales Tactics for Freelancers, where I spend far, far more time with 50, 60, 80 people in a room really, really helping them.

But you start off with sheer simplicity. Tell everybody about what you do.

Andy: This is more along the lines of networking isn’t it?

Darren Fell: Sort of, sort of. But I know it sounds strange. The newsagent, mum, dad, aunty, nan, sisters, brothers, friends. They may look at you a little bit oddly when you start going, “Look I’m a podcasting expert I’ve got this great new business. We record people and it creates another marketing channel for them” or “I’ve just set up a graphic design business, I’m fed up of working for the agency I’ve been working for, for 15 years and this is what I do.” And I can honestly say – that’s the first point that Richard Denny will come out with. It works. I have had some fantastic leads from mum. Mum has turned in to be my – well mums are always very supportive of sons.

Andy: What, your mum?

Darren Fell: My mum has literally – she will tell people, back in the email marketing days, what I did then and that person’s said, “Oh Lynn’s son’s doing so-and-so” and maybe their son is actually a marketer for a big dot.com site. So I’ve got emails through from these people. So yes, “I’ve heard from my mum who spoke to your mum, that you do email marketing. I’ve looked at your site and it looks fantastic, can you tell me more about it.” And we’ve gone on to demo the product, quote and win the service.

So I can honestly say, just always be in a sales mode. Every single time you’re out talking to people. It doesn’t have to come across as “Oh my God I’m a sales person, I’m selling now.” No you’re not, you’re just enthusiastic and passionate about what you do. And that overrides anything coming across as salesy. Like a double glazing sales person comes across very scripted and very robotic like. This is not what it’s about. You are a freelancer for your own business so you can come across with a passion. You believe passionately in your skills. You can do a brilliant job. Far better than agencies for a tenth of the price.

Andy: I think enthusiasm is the key though. You mentioned enthusiasm. And I think in my mind, if you’re enthusiastic enough about what you do, that carries so much weight. Because it’s infectious isn’t it? Enthusiasm is infectious. If you’re just talking to someone about something that you do and they can see that you’re enthusiastic about it. They’re probably going to want to do business with you.

Darren Fell: Yes absolutely. So just carry on that note, I do talk to lots of people and you know; I’m not going to lean over on a train and go, “Do you know what I do?” But if you strike up conversation and you’re getting on with people, why not drop it in. “This is what I do, here’s my card.” That’s that persistent – and you go back to that word you use, networking. It is effectively networking but you’re marketing yourself everywhere you possibly can.

Andy: What about established freelancers. Is there a difference there in way that they should approach, perhaps if they want to increase sales or get more clients? Is there a difference in their approach, different perhaps to how a new freelancer would approach it?

Darren Fell: Well I think the classic is, and I brought this up right at the beginning. And this is what I see with brilliant freelancers out there. They are so good at what they do, they know they’re good at what they do. That’s all they want to do. They don’t want to sell really if they can help it. It’s a bane, it’s a pain. So what I see is maybe the initial perfect time management skills of, “Yes, I’m going to spend two hours a day calling up people.” It doesn’t have to cold calling, it can be friends of friends of friends; other people you’ve worked with in the past and keep calling.

So you see that two hours a day or the one day a week or the two days a week, specifically for selling get encroached by work, which is absolutely brilliant. But what that freelancer completely forgets about is that it’s so enjoyable, I’ve got all this work on, suddenly it dries up. And so the other thing I was going to mention here is about control and management of your sales contacts.

Andy: Yes, I was going to ask about software actually. Is there good software to use?

Darren Fell: Yes, absolutely. There’s stacks and stacks of stuff out there. I started off with Act. It’s a really painful, sorry Sage, painful application but for a one person business it does the job. There is an online version which is better.

Andy: I used to use Act as well.

Darren Fell: Now Highrise which is one of the Basecamp offerings.

Andy: Yes.

Darren Fell: I’ve not used it.

Andy: I’ve heard good reports about it.

Darren Fell: Yes, I don’t know if you can actually put the figures in. But what you’ve got to do is every opportunity, record it. Keep on top of it. Put the amount in. When is that likely to drop? This is sales terminology. When are you going to close that deal? And always be very conservative on it because it never drops when you think it’s going to drop. So maybe add ten days, maybe add a month to it.

And then with the right piece of software, you can look at your year and go “Oh my God, that doesn’t even pay for the mortgage in June, July and August. What do I need to do to actually get business closed there or close business before hand?” So you actually can ride yourself through those months. And in fact if you do a really good job, you can do what the ultimate, which us freelancers like to do, is like “I’m going to go on a month’s holiday or six weeks holiday.” I mean how beautiful is that?

But you’ve got to manage the pipeline and have all that business dropping. But see it and application’s are brilliant out there. Have a look, I mean I haven’t done research. At Crunch we’ve moved over to one I always wanted back at Pure, but was unaffordable. I’ve now got a really good price for it per user is Sales Force. And a freelancer can get Sales Force it’s anything up to £65 a month. It’s a lot of money, but you can get reductions for it if you get more users on it. And it’s the ultimate package. But in reality for a one person business, you don’t need anything as comprehensive as that. That’s required for a bigger sales team like at Crunch.

Andy: So Act might be enough?

Darren Fell: I think Act or Highrise, as long as it’s got the ability to record it. Me as a sales person, you think you could hold a lot of these figures in your head. I’m going to close £2,000 of business, next month I’m going to do four the following month. Keep on top of it, because the other thing to go on to the next point is to keep touch points. And I’m using other salesy…

Andy: What’s a touch point?

Darren Fell: Well I think that’s the right thing, that’s a thing that I’d come up with as a sales person. Is, I need to keep in front of that customer. So if that business is likely to drop in four months. I want to have made sure I’ve had a good enough reason to talk to that customer in between. So it could be I’ve got in the press. It may have been I swam on Christmas Day in the sea “Look at me” but it’s humorous, it’s business.

It’s any reason – and again this is where you don’t want to come across too salesy, these touch points are “I’m still here, don’t forget about me” because this is the classic where freelancers are so busy and they go “Yes I got that business in August.” And they finally get to August 1st, “Right I’m here Mr Customer ready to do it.” “Oh I’m really sorry Dave, someone else gave me a call and I really forgot about what we’d spoken about” and you are absolutely kicking yourself.

Andy: You’ve got to remain in their psyche haven’t you?

Darren Fell: Exactly.

Andy: You’ve got to remain in their consciousness. Keep in touch.

Darren Fell: Yes.

Andy: I find Christmas is always a good way to do that.

Darren Fell: Christmas cards?

Andy: No, just after Christmas. I hope you had a great Christmas and New Year, just emailing you to see how things are going.

Darren Fell: Yes of course you can.

Andy: Or Easter. Any excuse.

Darren Fell: Of course you can. But I think that is the thing I use because it is less obvious. They know what you’re doing but if there is a reason to mention something or it’s something in the Tech Press that they might be interested in.

Andy: Yes, I saw this and thought of you.

Darren Fell: Yes, so the other thing of course you find with sales people naturally is they want to find out more about you. It’s a personal sale. Don’t just think you’re just selling a skill and that skill is being bought. If you’re very technical, try and get as personal as you can. Like, “Oh you’ve got children, brilliant, yes my children are in at that school as well” or “Your wife does kick boxing, yes so does mine, yes I have to be really nice to her every evening.” (Laughter)

And you just get in on a personal level and that’s the first thing I do. Then that allows you more – the touch points, before the deal actually drops. “Yes, this happened, how’s it all going with you.” Because otherwise with your – I’m sure you’ve got loads of other ways of keeping in touch with them.

Andy: Oh there’s millions.

Darren Fell: Otherwise it’s just once a year isn’t it? “How was your Christmas?” (Laughter)

Andy: Yes, “How was your Spring?” So Darren you conveniently avoided answering the question about agencies there. What’s your view on agencies?

Darren Fell: I did actually didn’t I? I’m sorry about that. Agencies – I suppose I conveniently avoided agencies because I believe the sale can be done directly and you can build up a far better relationship with customers. The trouble with agencies is that it falls into contracting mode. You just go there, you do the job and you leave. You’re not invited to any of the parties often. You’re not invited to Christmas party often. I know this is different, so that falls for me into the world of contracting and that’s a perfectly acceptable world. But I think all of us would love to actually build up our own Client base that will come back again and again and use us.

So agencies have a perfect place out there. If that’s what you would like to do, is go contracting at locations or working from home through an agency, it’s perfectly fine. In which case, you need to go into sales mode for the agencies and get yourself near perfect for them to sell you. Obviously, they’re going to take big cut out of your hourly daily rate, which is probably why I was avoiding it, because I like being direct to the customer, but it certainly has its place out there.

But when you go into the agencies, you have to make sure the CV is a killer CV, it really is well prepared. When you go into see them, it’s always worth going to see these guys. Make sure you’re smart. (Laughter) I’ve heard so many stories of freelancers, maybe in the summer, you’re in a torn t-shirt with your ripped jeans on. You know, life’s great, but they’re not going to think much of you because they won’t want to send you to Clients. So it’s probably a whole discussion in its own right about using agencies.

But if it really is the mode you want to go down, make sure you’ve got the tools right and that’s the killer CV and make sure you’re very presentable and carry yourself well. And there are probably plenty of books out there that can help you with one. I think ‘Contractor Calculators’, Dave Chaplin’s book really speaks about that, that’s very specific about contracting and how to win agencies over. So, very big place in the selling aspect for your career.

But you could actually balance it out. Have some agencies working for you on your behalf and once you’ve done a good job of selling into them and make sure you still spend time selling and getting your own direct customer base. The other thing why I am slightly anti-agency sometimes is that you are completely dependent on them.

Andy: Yes, I remember back in the 90s, I got all my work through agencies. And occasionally I would meet contractors who would talk to me and I would talk to them and they’d say, “Well I don’t always use an agency, sometimes I go direct.” And I was always so jealous of them. I remember once meeting a guy who developed some software. And I thought “Oh that’s so cool developing your own software” and I always wanted to go there. So there is a sort of a pull sometimes when you’re using an agency to try and go a bit more freelance if possible.

Darren Fell: Absolutely, absolutely. Definitely if you can balance it up. Which is really why I avoided almost at the beginning, you’ve got to get that balance out there. The day an age out there, effectively these contracting agencies are recruiters. The recruiters are getting thinned down. They are not bringing in as much money. When your key recruiter has been absolutely fantastic for you, selling you into all these places decides – or gets sacked. What do you do then? So you’ve got to really balance this out with getting your own direct business.

And that’s why I come back to the core purpose of this podcast is to instill in you, get your sales mode on, get your sales hat on and make sure you do it every single week or for a few hours every day.

Andy: Okay brilliant. Just quickly then at the end, is there much point in analysing your competition as a freelancer?

Darren Fell: Absolutely. Now I think for bigger businesses, you know like Pure and Crunch, you spend endless amounts of time whilst you’re doing the business plan, while you’re checking out talking to mystery shopping. And I don’t think there’s any harm in actually doing the same with other freelancers out there.

I’m helping a tree surgeon at the moment and he’s “How do I brand myself, how do I market – how do I win this business out there?” And I am saying, “Right, analyse the competition. I’ve actually got two quotes for you because I’m obviously a perfect customer. I’ve got a tree in the garden that needs a lot of help. Here’s the quote, go and look at their website. Where do you come up on Google? How good is their site? Does it convey things? How good are they on the phone? When they come round, how personal is it? Is the quote professional? Does the quote come back fast?”

And actually on that note, this is obviously completely unscripted podcast, but the quote and proposals is incredibly important. And probably may fit into personal brand as well. But anytime someone wants something from you like that, that is the biggest buying signal ever. Produce the quote as quickly as you can – the proposal. Don’t go into in-depth, do a light proposal, three to five pages, but get it is back fast. It is the momentum that also can carry a sale through.

Andy: Yes.

Darren Fell: So anyway, that’s a tiny point. But I think competition is really, really important. But often competition isn’t competition. So down here at Brighton, I would recommend if you’re in the text scene or the media scene, go down to Brighton Farm. Every Wednesday go for beers in the pub. What better place to chat to people? And some freelancers have got it initially wrong when they come and they’re like “I’m an excellent PHP programmer.” I don’t want to go and mix with them, they’re my competition. There may be very, very few who may think that but you go in and mix with that community, get on with them.

Suddenly they realise you’re brilliant and “Look Dave I’m over loaded. I’m overloaded with all this work can you take this piece off me?” You do once piece of work for him, brilliant that’s fantastic, he knows he can trust you. So you end up creating network there. So that’s probably a whole other podcast on selling.

Andy: Yes.

Darren Fell: Is just getting out there, finding the groups, the communities that you can mix in with. Go for beers with them. Those networking things don’t have to be the glass of wine stiffly held, like “Hello what do you do then?” (Laughter) And walking away with a load of cards that you do nothing with. Network away, just try and get out there every evening.

Andy: It’s also to do with building relationships isn’t it?

Darren Fell: Yes.

Andy: Now Darren a huge area that we haven’t really spoken about it is online networking, social media, Facebook and Twitter, what are your views on that? How should they best be used for a freelancer?

Darren Fell: I think it’s difficult really. You can get sucked into that world. I have found that I personally haven’t. A lot of my competition probably have and spend so much time on Twitter. Be really, really careful with it. Yes you can find business, but it can just drag you in. And suddenly you look at the clock and it is 5 o’clock and you realise you missed your two hours of calling people about selling. So social networking is good. For example, Twitter, if you want to have something continually going out there and you’ve got some good points to make. A lot of people don’t like it, but how about chucking those hints or tips in a database in ‘HootSuite’ so it doesn’t suck up your time.

Facebook, brilliant. Get any bit of news you’ve got or great piece of work you’ve done, get it up there. LinkedIn is obviously on the professional side.

Andy: Yes I was going to mention LinkedIn actually because I’ve got a piece of work that’s happening next week that came via LinkedIn. Just completely out of the blue.

Darren Fell: Fantastic. That’s brilliant.

Andy: I’ve had generally pretty good results with social media and networking.

Darren Fell: Have you?

Andy: I mean I use Twitter. I have an app on my iPhone called ‘Tweety’ and whenever anything interesting happens, I will tweet that out and sometimes those things are do with business. I might be just about to go and see a Client about such and such or just recorded such and such a podcast.

Darren Fell: Yes, absolutely brilliant.

Andy: And that does help community because you get followers and then you get DM’d – Direct Messages on Twitter. And it’s all to do with building relationships with people and just swapping information and building relationships. And I feel that the more relationships you have, whether online or offline, the healthier your business and you are going to be. That’s my view.

Darren Fell: That’s a really good view. I think the important thing is not to get sucked in. If I had a sales person in the team who was just focusing a lot of Twitter and social media, I would be a little concerned. I think what you’re talking about is just making the most of it on every positive thing you’re doing and that I think is fantastic. There is no issue with that.

I was just saying at the beginning, be very careful for being sucked in because it’s just another channel. It’s not the channel. If anything should come across on this call – a lot of people don’t like having spoken conversations they try and do it on email. Do try and do things on the phone. It’s immediate, it’s personal and if you can sense from the other person that it’s not kind of the right time or it’s not working then, “I’ll speak to you at another point it’s not a problem.”

But yes, invest time in the phone is the key point. Social networking brilliant, but don’t take too much time on it. I think balance is the key there.

Andy: Okay just quickly before we go Darren, thanks so much. But just quickly before we go tell us a bit about these seminars that you’re doing.

Darren Fell: Yes it’s following National Freelancers Day back on the 23rd November when we gathered in The Eagle pub on Gloucester Road. Is it Gloucester Road or Gloucester Street in the Lanes? Probably Street. And the function room had a capacity of 60. I didn’t expect hardly anybody to turn up, but it was utterly packed. People were on the stairs, they couldn’t fit into the room. People were downstairs; they couldn’t fit on the stairs. And the key thing that came out of that was “Can you help us in some key areas? Can we do this again?”

And Drumming Up Business; Sales Tactics for Freelancers is what came out of it, so I am going to do seminars for New Media Knowledge, the University of Westminster and various other places if they’ll have me. If I’ll have me, if I’ll be useful and spend an hour and a half, interacting, so telling them my story of how I sell, how I sold, what you need to put together and letting everybody really interact. So I am hoping that will be really useful for the community out there.

Andy: Fantastic. So we’ll make sure that we put a link in the show that it’s to that. So Darren Fell of Crunch.co.uk thank you so much indeed.

Darren Fell: Great, thanks Andy.

Thank you for listening to Freelance Advisor. Please send questions and comments to feedback@freelanceadvisor.co.uk. Please note that everyone’s situation is different. Freelance Advisor is intended only as general guidance. Please consult a relevant professional before acting on any advice from the Freelance Advisor Podcast or website.

The music featured in Freelance Advisor is Revolution by DJ Strano. For more information on Freelance Advisor please visit the Freelance Advisor website at www.freelanceadvisor.co.uk. Freelance Advisor is brought to you by Crunch, ridiculously easy accounting at www.crunch.co.uk.

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Podcast 21: The Challenges of Working from Home

February 9th, 2010


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Andy speaks to Judy Heminsley, author of Work from Home.

A lively discussion on…

  • The challenges of working from home
  • Tackling procrastination and gaining momentum
  • Getting into the right frame of mind
  • Overcoming isolation – getting out of the house
  • Co-working spaces – renting a desk and getting help
  • Starting a Jelly – one day co-working events in Bath and Bristol

Podcast links:

Listen to the Podcast:

 
icon for podpress  Work from Home [17:14m]: Play Now | Play in Popup | Download


Transcript

Andy White: Hello and welcome to Episode 21 of Freelance Advisor and in today’s show we have an interview with Judy Heminsley, author of Work From Home. Enjoy.

So I’m talking to Judy Heminsley who’s the author of a book called Work From Home. Is that a book you’ve recently finished Judy or was it released a while ago?

Judy Heminsley: It seems like a long time ago I finished it. It actually came out last April so it’s been out almost a year but of course it’s six months or so before that the book actually has to go into the publishers.

Andy White: And I have to confess, I was just having a sort of little pre interview chat with Judy just before we went live, and I have to say I have not read this book. I didn’t have a chance to. We arranged this at quite short notice but I’m told it’s very, very good. And I know that you cover quite a few interesting subjects all about the sort of working on your own type sort of perspective.

Judy Heminsley: Yes, yes I do. What I was interested in covering here was about the, all the challenges of working from home that I’d never actually read about in other places. And you’d tend to get quite a lot of material on the web and in papers and magazines about how to set up your home office and that kind of thing. But I thought it would be really interesting to help people with things like well what happens when the kids want me and I’m trying to work from home.

Andy White: Yes.

Judy Heminsley: What about being on my own all the time and not been mixing with colleagues in the office, all that kind of thing. So that was why I wrote it.

Andy White: And I am absolutely dying to talk about co working and specifically jellies…

Judy Heminsley: Ahh.

Andy White: But I’ll save that to the end because I always like to save jelly to the end. (Laughter)

Judy Heminsley: You were obviously brought up very well.

Andy White: Oh, that’s absolutely. Now one of the things that… working on your own is quite challenging I know that you’ve covered this quite extensively in the book is procrastination, and have you got some tips you can give about freelancers who are suffering a bad attack of procrastination.

Judy Heminsley: Yes. I think it’s something that we all suffer from to some extent or other. It’s just a very human thing to put off something that we either don’t want to do or are not very sure about doing, or something that perhaps we think is going to take a long time and be quite complicated. And so we come up with all kinds of ruses. And I think the important thing is probably to realise what we’re doing when we’re putting something off, because a lot of us let it get to the point where really it’s spoiling all the day, because we’ve got this horrible thing at the back of our mind. We know jolly well we’ve got to do it at some point but anything, anything at all – cleaning the oven, doing the ironing, whatever, seems much more attractive than that particular thing. So, there are various things that you can try to kind of trick yourself into doing it. I think my favourite method is just to start with an element of whatever it is that you’ve got to do. The bit that appeals to you the most. So if you can start with something you enjoy or at least something that you don’t actually hate…

Andy White: Yes.

Judy Heminsley: Hopefully that then provides a momentum because it’s really the first point that is the most difficult, sitting down and getting on with it.

Andy White: Yes.

Judy Heminsley: And then once you’ve got a little bit, hopefully that will lead on to a bit more and a bit more and you can gradually get to grips with it. And then you lose that horrible dread at the back of your mind, you know when you wake up in the morning and you think “Oh, there’s something horrible and I can’t quite remember what it is.”

Andy White: Oh yes, it’s that.

Judy Heminsley: “It’s that. Oh no!” you know, that report or that project or whatever. And if you can kind of get into it and kind of get it moving I think it takes that awfulness away. And hopefully it will make you think of other things that you can do – ideas start to pop up and you can actually move forward with it.

Andy White: Isn’t that known as the “Salami Technique” as well, I think I’ve heard it described as?

Judy Heminsley: Really?

Andy White: Where you take a problem and you cut it up like a salami.

Judy Heminsley: Oh right, that’s good. I’ll remember that – the Salami Technique.

Andy White: The Salami Technique. Yes, so for example if it was like doing your tax return…

Judy Heminsley: Oh yes, well that would be a big one.

Andy White: Yes. The first slice… I mean that’s the horrible one that most people hate. The first bit of it would be going to find your, I don’t know your bank statements and getting them and putting them in a pile ready or something.

Judy Heminsley: Yes. Yes, I’m also a great believer in reward. You do that and you find all those different bits of paper and you put them in a pile ad then you go and have a coffee.

Andy White: Yes.

Judy Heminsley: Or you allow yourself to read the paper or whatever it is you like to do. Give yourself a bit of a break and then maybe come back and do a little bit more.

Andy White: That’s right. As long as the reward doesn’t last the rest of the day. (Laughter)

Judy Heminsley: This is true. You have to be a bit careful with that one, yes. And yet I think you also have to know what you’re going to do next.

Andy White: Yes.

Judy Heminsley: Because if you don’t it can be hard to get back into it.

Andy White: Yes, absolutely. Now what about productivity? Because I know that when you’re sort of working on your own it’s quite difficult to motivate yourself sometimes. What tips have you got for sort of motivating yourself and becoming productive, or maybe some sort of streamlining tips you can give.

Judy Heminsley: Well, I always find that probably the worst part is actually starting work in the morning.

Andy White: Yes.

Judy Heminsley: That may just be me; it may be lots of other people too. But I find I kind of, I’ve developed this kind of technique where I almost tricked myself into getting into the work frame of mind. And what I tend to do is I come into the office, I sit down at the computer and I have a list of various sites that I like to check out in the morning. So they could be newspaper websites, other sites that have up-to-dated news and just kind of feel as though I’m keeping myself up-to-date reading a bit of gossip maybe, a bit of news, find out what’s going on in the world out there. And then sort of make them slowly more kind of work orientated and then you can gradually get into doing something without even realising it. And also if you then check your email accounts of course because then you’ll probably have stuff from other people saying “Please I want this, I want that.”

Andy White: Yes.

Judy Heminsley: And that’s a very handy hook to get you into the day and working.

Andy White: Absolutely. So it’s sort of, it’s interesting that you mentioned that because it’s a bit like having a sort of ritual first thing in the morning isn’t it to help you get into the swing of work.

Judy Heminsley: Yes. I think that’s quite useful. Mine does actually change all the time because I get fed up with routines.

Andy White: Yes.

Judy Heminsley: And so if you’ve developed a routine and then you find it’s getting a bit boring don’t hesitate to do something else.

Andy White: Yes, absolutely.

Judy Heminsley: And just to keep it fresh and invigorating. Because if it’s no longer working for you there’s no point.

Andy White: Yes.

Judy Heminsley: I know occasionally I’ve had a routine that involved tidying up the house a bit before I went into the office. That worked for a while. Now I tend to ignore that and just come straight in.

Andy White: Because a lot of people, a lot of freelancers work from home – what would you say to people that are having trouble with being distracted by, say for example they’re working and think “Oh God, I’ve got to do that washing,” or “I better go and do that washing up and sweep the path,” or something. What would you say to people that are having that problem?

Judy Heminsley: I think you’ve really got to be quite firm with yourself and say “Well, actually work is my priority because if I was going out to work I wouldn’t be here to see those things and do those things.” So don’t feel guilty that you can’t do them. And just the fact that you happen to be in the house doesn’t mean that you have to making it tidy and clean all the time.

Andy White: Sure.

Judy Heminsley: I know people have said to me “Well, I couldn’t start work until the house was tidy.” But they’re not actually people who work from home and I think those of us who do, we probably get used to the idea of ignoring things. I think it’s probably more difficult to ignore things, pleasant distractions like in the summer when the sun’s shining and you think “Actually I’d rather go out in the garden,” and that kind of thing. But I always find that it’s very motivating that you have to pay the bills and you’ve got to satisfy your customers and you’ve got to get your money in.

Andy White: Yes.

Judy Heminsley: That in itself is quite motivating.

Andy White: Now, I must talk about a subject which I have to admit I do suffer from this quite a lot. And whenever I think of this word it always makes me think of a certain song that was sung by The Mighty Boosh and Mighty Boosh fans will know which one I mean. Isolation. How do you tackle this sort of isolated feeling that you sometimes get if you’re a solo worker in your house?

Judy Heminsley: I think there are all sorts of ways that you can. And what you need to do is plan it in. So rather than ending up maybe, mid afternoon I think seems to be the classic time, you’ve kind of got a real burst of enthusiasm in the morning, you’ve carried on working, you’ve had your lunch and then suddenly you have a dip in the afternoon.

Andy White: Yes, yes.

Judy Heminsley: And then you suddenly realise “Oh, well it’s just me and I’m getting a bit bored.”

Andy White: Yes.

Judy Heminsley: So what you need to do is plan ahead. And if you need to put it in the diary – I think it’s actually first priority after actually doing the work and getting the money in from your customers. So you’ve got obviously these days you can use the internet and you can go to forums and post comments there. You can talk to people on the telephone or on Skype and or you can physically leave the house. But it is important that you recognise that these things are essential when you’re working from home. Because if you don’t do it , if you have this idea that you’ve got to be at your desk nine to five, you’re going to quickly run out of steam. And it’s fatal when you do that because you start to spiral downwards.

Andy White: Yes.

Judy Heminsley: And the thing about home workers is that they’re all there in their little offices and they tend not to talk about this very much, I mean people will go out to networking events or they’ll meet friends but they… At networking events they’ll talk about their business and what they do but you don’t really say to somebody else “Oh, do you find it difficult to sit there actually on your own at home and do this?” And so it’s something that we’ve just internalised and we all tend to think that we’re absolutely rubbish at discipline or productivity or whatever. And yet if you do talk to someone else about it you find that they feel exactly the same way.

Andy White: Yes.

Judy Heminsley: So it’s really a big priority I think and you no doubt will have your own favourite ways of doing it. And you mentioned jelly before; I don’t know whether it’s appropriate to bring that in now?

Andy White: Well, actually I was going to ask you about co working first of all. In fact my actual words were going to be “That’s a wonderful segway into co working.” (Laughter). And then let’s talk about the jelly. Yes, co working – is this something you recommend for people? It’s something that’s fascinated me, in fact talk of the devil I actually went just before I did this interview I had a bit of a late lunch and I’d just pop my head round the door of a quite well known co working office here in Brighton…

Judy Heminsley: Yes.

Andy White: And there was a bit of a buzz there. I have to say there is a certain appeal about spending at least some of your time with people that do maybe similar things to you. What’s your view on it?

Judy Heminsley: Yes. I think it’s really exciting actually and I understand that Brighton’s got quite a few places that you can do that.

Andy White: It has, yes.

Judy Heminsley: And they are beginning to crop up around the country too, which is really good for home workers and freelancers because it means we have a choice. Whereas once we didn’t really much choice – we either had home office or perhaps a coffee shop with all the [?? 0:11:04] difficulties of that.

Andy White: Yes.

Judy Heminsley: Co working spaces are places that rent out desks, from as little as a few hours a month. Or you can have a more permanent commitment on a lease. And so they’re very reasonably priced and a home worker can just use a desk in a co working space for a few hours a month just to get out of the house. And as you say they do tend to have a buzz. They tend to be likeminded people, they’re all freelancers, they’re all independent. And what happens is you go along and you can do your work but you can also chat to the person next to you and ask what they’re doing. And it’s amazing how many ideas come out of that. And of course you get lots of help. Because you might find yourself sitting next to the person who can do just the thing that you’ve been trying to do for ages, and haven’t quite managed it and they just give you a tip and it works out.

Andy White: Now, we’ve got to talk about jelly. Because I was looking at your website and everywhere I looked there’s jelly, jelly, jelly. What is this jelly thing? And I did have a quick read and it sounds very interesting but tell us in your own words how it started and what a jelly is?

Judy Heminsley: Right, well jelly actually started in New York in 2006. And it came about because two independent I.T. workers in New York were having a bit of a moan one day about the downsides of being freelance and working from home. Namely being the fact that you do get isolated and you tend to look at your same four walls all the time. And they thought “Well, wouldn’t it be great if we just all got together once in a while and work together.” And that would mean that those problems would be overcome. So they decided that they would do that and that’s how it all started. They did it first of all in the apartment of one of them and got a crowd of people that they knew to come round with their laptops and they all worked together. And the reason it’s called jelly is because apparently they were eating jellybeans at the time when they came up with this great idea.

Andy White: And there was me thinking it was some really profound reason like it was a very flexible way of thinking or something. (Laughter)

Judy Heminsley: Oh right, oh that’s very lateral, yes. I think we just have to be grateful they weren’t eating cabbage. (Laughter)

Andy White: So basically, let me get this right. It’s the idea of lots of, it’s a bit like co working but the goal isn’t so much to get work done; it’s more to swap ideas and do a bit of work. Is that the idea behind it?

Judy Heminsley: It is, jelly is co working but jelly is just a one day event.

Andy White: Oh, okay.

Judy Heminsley: Which is held usually by a home worker for others to come along. It’s entirely free so you have to find a venue that is willing to host you for nothing, for no charge.

Andy White: Yes.

Judy Heminsley: And usually people will do that because they’re glad to have people come along and be there for the day. I mean you can do it in a café which means the café’s got a buzz about it. It’s got a table full of people who are buying food and drink all day.

Andy White: Yes.

Judy Heminsley: And hopefully spreading word of mouth advertising. And you can do it in a co working space. So one of these places in Brighton might be happy to host a jelly and that would mean that people would come along and spend the day there that perhaps normally wouldn’t know about that place. And of course they may then return and pay for a desk at a later date.

Andy White: Is it taking off much in this country? I know you said you mentioned it started in the United States didn’t it?

Judy Heminsley: Yes, that’s right. It really seems to have started to take off now actually. Here in the Bath and Bristol area we’ve got someone who was really worked very hard and started organising jelly and he’s called [Lee Cottier 0:14:22] and he’s very interested in it. He found out about it last year and he’s now got it going regularly in Bristol and Bath. I came along and with Lee’s help I started here in Frome. And we started Tweeting about it and we got lots of enquiries from people all over the place saying “How do we do it?” That’s why I put the jelly guide on my website to answer people’s questions.

Andy White: Yes.

Judy Heminsley: And we’re now hearing from people in Cambridge, Yorkshire, Bradford I believe there’s one starting.

Andy White: I’m just writing on my to do list actually, start a jelly in Brighton, okay.

Judy Heminsley: The great thing about it is it is easy to do. It’s not particularly time consuming. And it’s a really good event because the point of jelly is simply to get together and work with likeminded people. The purpose isn’t to sell or to pitch your business or anything like that so it doesn’t have the same atmosphere as an event where people are to promote themselves.

Andy White: Yes, it’s not so much networking then?

Judy Heminsley: No, absolutely not. It’s definitely not. It’s a completely different vibe to that. But people to chat and they talk about what they’re doing and what their ideas are and who knows what wonderful new business or new projects might arise out of it. Because they’re people whom otherwise wouldn’t normally meet.

Andy White: Well, that sounds a really good idea. I really quite fancy the idea of getting one of those started. So thanks so much for talking to us. Just again the book is called…?

Judy Heminsley: Work From Home.

Andy White: Work From Home. And all good bookshops plus Amazon?

Judy Heminsley: Absolutely, yes. It’s published by “How To” books and you can get it from your local bookshop or if they don’t have it then they’ll order in for you in a couple of days. Or you can get it from Amazon.

Andy White: So, Judy Heminsley, thank you very, very much for talking to us today.

Judy Heminsley: Thank you.

Andy White: Hope you enjoyed that interview with Judy. One thing we didn’t mention in the interview her website is www.workfromhomewisdom.com. Do check it out, lots of great stuff there. Thanks for listening. See you next time.

Thank you for listening to Freelance Advisor. Please send questions and comments to feedback@freelanceadvisor.co.uk. Please note that everyone’s situation is different. Freelance Advisor is intended only as general guidance. Please consult a relevant professional before acting on any advice from the Freelance Advisor Podcast or website.

The music featured in Freelance Advisor is Revolution by DJ Strano. For more information on Freelance Advisor please visit the Freelance Advisor website at www.freelanceadvisor.co.uk. Freelance Advisor is brought to you by Crunch, ridiculously easy accounting at www.crunch.co.uk.

Freelance Podcast 20: Making a living without a job – Part 2

December 23rd, 2009


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Part 2 of an interview with Barbara J Winter, author of Making a Living Without a Job.

In this episode:
  • Accidental entrepreneurs
  • Un-job fairs
  • The future of freelancing
  • Raising entrepreneurial children
Useful links:

http://barbarawinter.com/

http://joyfullyjobless.com/

Buy the book: Making a Living Without a Job

 
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Freelance Podcast 19: Making a living without a job

December 19th, 2009


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Part 1 of an interview with Barbara Winter, author of Making a Living Without a Job.

In this episode:
  • Personal development and self-employment
  • Building businesses limited only by our vision
  • How traditional employment stifles exploration
  • Finding the essence of what you want to do
Useful links:
http://barbarawinter.com/ http://joyfullyjobless.com/

Buy the book: Making a Living Without a Job

 
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Freelance Podcast 18: The sustainable freelancer

November 5th, 2009


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Circles - by Rich RenomeronWhat would freelance sustainability look like? How can you take your personal business and brand beyond the bottom line into an ethical and sustainable business? We talk to Carl Jeffrey, creative midwife and joiner of dots at FellowCreative and Paul Anderson, Environmental Strategy Consultant at Sustaina. (more…)

 
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Podcast #17: Fight Back! How to bounce back after rejection or failure

September 25th, 2009


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1481Andy talks to Hannah Keep, author of Fight Back!

Topics include

  • Fighting Back; Building your bounce-back-ability.
  • Generating and maintaining a Positive Mental Attitude
  • The exploding freelance market
(more…)

 
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Podcast #16: Steps to Accountancy Heaven

July 1st, 2009


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Darren Fell covers the correct steps to setting up your accounting system.

  • Step 1: Find the good accountant

  • Step 2: Make sure you like their software

    (more…)

 
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Podcast #15: The Hallmarks of a Good Freelancer

May 4th, 2009


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Freelance Advisor Podcast

Andy White talks to freelance Art Director and Conceptual Designer, and winner of The Xchange Team Freelancer of the Year award, Anna Cowie.  In this interview, Annie gives us some tips and reveals her modus operandi.

Topics covered:

  • Guiding clients
  • Managing client expectations
  • Taking risks / not be afraid to make mistakes
  • Allowing clients to be the experts in their business
  • The importance of working within a team
  • How to listen to the client
  • How to inject energy into a project
Links:

 
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Podcast #14: Why we get Employed – the Company Perspective

April 6th, 2009


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Freelance Advisor Podcast

Andy White talks to Drew Griffiths of Mosaic about why companies hire freelancers and what they look for.

(more…)

 
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Podcast #13: Why we get Employed – the Recruitment Consultancy Perspective

April 6th, 2009


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Freelance Advisor Podcast

Andy White talks to Emma Brierley, Director of Xchange Team, about her book, Talent on Tap: Getting the best from Freelancers, Interims and Consultants, and gain some interesting insights into why freelancers get employed from the agency perspective. (more…)

 
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Podcast #12: Are you IR35 Compliant?

January 28th, 2009


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I talk to Steve Crouch about the latest IR35 case, Dragonfly Consultancy. This case highlights some very interesting points that contractors and freelancers need to consider when embarking on client projects. If you want to remain IR35 compliant, this is a must listen.

 
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Podcast #11: The growth in the Freelancer Marketplace – Fact or Fiction (Part 2)

November 10th, 2008


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Freelance Advisor Podcast

In the wake of the results of the Kingston University survey on freelancers, we get reactions and opinions from John Kell of the Professional Contractors Group and Nathan Pope of Latitude Hosting and the Brighton Farm.

Topics Covered:

  • Growth in the freelance market
  • Freelancer figures, statistics and research
  • Male and Female freelancing split in IT contracting and creative industries
  • Response and reflection from John Kell (PCG), Nathan Pope (Brighton ) Darren Fell (Crunch)

Related:

 
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Podcast #10: The growth in the Freelancer Marketplace – Fact or Fiction

October 10th, 2008


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Freelance Advisor PodcastAndy talks to John Brazier of the Professional Contractors Group, Nathan Pope of the Brighton Farm and Darren Fell of Freelance Advisor, about their views of how the freelancing and contracting market is evolving over the next few years.

Whether you are a consultant or contractor, contracting or freelancing, the future could look bright for the independent and self-employed.

Related:

 
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Podcast #9: Finding your perfect pricing point

August 13th, 2008


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Freelance Advisor PodcastAndy talks to Darren Fell of Freelance Advisor, about some techniques for working out what you should be charging.

Topics Covered:

  • The role of networking;
  • Online resources;
  • Finding the perfect price point according to your skill;
  • Selecting the rate you can afford;
  • Strategies for getting started in pricing;
  • Pricing for big clients;
  • Price negotiating tips.

 
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Podcast #8: Thrive as a freelance graphic designer in todays market

July 4th, 2008


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Freelance Advisor PodcastAndy talks to Stuart Scott, an successful freelance graphic designer based in Brighton, about what it takes to succeed in the industry.

Topics Covered:

  • Getting direct clients;
  • Watch the trends;
  • Attending industry events
  • Having a team of experts around you
  • The difference between design and artwork
  • Flaunting your published work
  • The role of networking in specific industry sectors
  • Asking for referrals
  • Free initial consultations

 
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Podcast #7: How to take on a Project

June 19th, 2008


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Freelance Advisor PodcastAndy talks to Dave Mellors & Malcolm Cook of First Light Associates about the things that need to be done when taking on a new project.

Topics Covered:

  • Getting and capturing the scope
  • How to charge for projects
  • Handling scope changes and change control
  • Project planning
  • Contracts, agreements and legal matters
  • Becoming a partner with your client and fostering long term relationships

 
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Podcast #6: Five Things you always wanted to ask your accountant – part 2

May 9th, 2008


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Freelance Advisor Podcast

Part 2 of an interview with Steve Crouch of SRC Chartered Accountants. Here Steve tells us about the types of expenses freelancers can claim such as those associated with working from home and some more general things to look out for.

Topics Covered:

  • The expenses a freelancer can claim;
  • Expenses associated with working from home;
  • Motor expenses;
  • Expenses related to working from rented accommodation;
  • Insuring your equipment;
  • Public liability insurance;
  • Taking on employees;
  • Health and Safety;
  • Taking on contractors of your own;
  • What should freelancers look for in an accountant?

 
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Podcast #5: Five things you always wanted to ask your accountant – part 1

April 2nd, 2008


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Freelance Advisor Podcast

Part one of an interview with Steve Crouch of SRC Chartered Accountants. Steve answers questions on such things as salaries, dividends, section 660, IR35 and VAT.

Topics covered:

  • Limited company verses sole trader;
  • Taking a small salary with big dividends;
  • Section 660 – profit share between spouses;
  • Consideration to IR35;
  • When to register for VAT;
  • The two VAT schemes.
Links:

 
icon for podpress  #5: Five things you always wanted to ask your accountant - part 1 [19:08m]: Play Now | Play in Popup | Download

Podcast #4: Marketing Secrets part 2: Here are 5 things you must do

March 4th, 2008


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Freelance Advisor PodcastAndy talks to Paul Silver of The Farm who talks about 5 areas to concentrate on. Get these right, and your freelancing business will get off to a flying start.

 
icon for podpress  #4: Marketing Secrets part 2: Here are 5 things you must do [26:57m]: Play Now | Play in Popup | Download

Podcast #3: Marketing Secrets part 1: Tips from the coalface

February 8th, 2008


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Freelance Advisor PodcastRA: , an experienced IT support contractor speaks to Andy about some of his self-promotion techniques as a contractor. This is part 1 of a 2 part special series on marketing yourself.

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icon for podpress  #3: Marketing Secrets part 1: Tips from the coalface [14:28m]: Play Now | Play in Popup | Download

Podcast #2: Things you must do to prepare for freelancing

February 8th, 2008


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Freelance Advisor PodcastAndy talks to Raju Ajiz, an IT support contractor, about some of the first things you should consider before embarking on freelancing or contracting.

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icon for podpress  #2: Things you must do to prepare for freelancing [12:03m]: Play Now | Play in Popup | Download

Podcast #1: What you’re going to get in this series

February 5th, 2008


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Freelance Advisor Podcast

Andy White and Darren Fell set out the aims and upcoming topics in Freelance Advisor podcast series.

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icon for podpress  #1: What you're going to get in this series [8:44m]: Play Now | Play in Popup | Download